Talk:Zongzi

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Tones[edit]

Why does this article (and wikipedia in general) not include tones for pinyin? It would make the articles much more useful, and seems like a basic quality check. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.42.121 (talk) 01:01, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

West dakota prize[edit]

A Winner of the March 2005 West Dakota Prize

This entry is one of only seventeen that have won the March 2005 West Dakota Prize for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence. --Wetman 08:23, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)


A Winner of the September 2005 West Dakota Prize

This entry, one of an unprecedented 52, has won the September 2005 West Dakota Prize, awarded for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence.


Page move[edit]

I moved this to zongzi because rice dumpling is ambiguous between zongzi, yuanxiao and mochi, among many other things.

Pekinensis 22:08, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Also, Danny hand-wrapped 10 rice dumplings last week. diaf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hangtime23 (talkcontribs) 18:52, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Banana leaves[edit]

I've always thought that these dumplings were wrapped in banana leaves. It is also mentioned briefly in another wikipedia article. Is this wrong; or should it be included in the article?

Thanks for the tip. I have generalized the wording to include all of the kinds of leaves I have heard of. I'm curious — which other wikipedia article mentions the banana leaves? — Pekinensis 00:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
I bought one wrapped in a piece of banana leaf a long time ago in Paris. It was bigger than the average zongzi and square in shape. I guess those are from Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia, because most overseas Chinese living in France at the time came from these countries.In Taiwan, all zongzi are wrapped in bamboo leaves. 218.166.89.42 08:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I've also heard of them being wrapped in "lú wěi" (芦苇), which is apparently the reed (my translator doesn't specify which, but I think it's Phragmites australis). Laogooli 22:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

No, no. All wrong. Traditionally, the zongzi is wrapped in bamboo leaves. In countries where this is not readily available, banana leaf might be used but that is incorrect. Banana leaves impart a different smell and flavour to the rice than bamboo leaves. 17 November 2006

I disagree as well, something directly referred as zongzi is ONLY wrapped in bamboo leaves. Other leaves are used to wrap rice or even braided into baskets to do so but no person who grows up in a zongzi making/eating culture will refer to them as zongzi. Typically the are referred using other names. As in the case of the "Nonya Zhang" that is wrapped in pandan leaves, it is a regional specialty and even locally few refer to it as zongzi. Sjschen 13:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in a zongzi-eating culture and I've only ever seen them wrapped in bamboo leaves. The only other similar thing I can think of is a dish called "glutinous rice chicken" in dim sum, which is wrapped in lotus leaves and completely different in texture and fillings. JCIACHNE (talk) 17:01, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
In the cosmopolitan culture currently prevailing in cities all over the world, bamboo leaves, banana leaves, and lotus leaves are used as available when fresh. In increasing order of the intensity of their effect on the flavor of the filling: bamboo - banana - lotus... With lotus leaves developing an increasingly strong characteristic flavor over time as the food sits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 18:03, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

zongzi is not bazhang[edit]

i'm taiwanese and the zongzi i have is not bazhang. zongzi is exactly what this article describes, whereas bazhang isn't made with sweet rice, but rather rice floor like mochi. then again, i didn't know so many kinds of leaves could be used.

Are you sure all bazhang are made with rice flour? I thought those mochi-like zongzi were a hakka speciality. Ordinary zongzi in Taiwan are advertised as shio badzhang (燒肉粽) by street vendors.125.225.72.81 13:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
The rice flour kind is call "gei-zhang", the sweet rice kind filled with meat is called "bazhang"! 64.229.203.224 13:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Northern or Southern China[edit]

This food is typical of southern China, not northern China, correct? (Hunan on down.) If so, this should be noted in the article. Of course they're available everywhere in China, but I believe they're traditional to the southern provinces. Badagnani 01:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well glutenious rice is mainly grown in Southern China, but it is made in Northern China as well, in fact, quite different than the one made in Southern China.

碱水粽[edit]

What is 碱水粽? Has something been treated with salt, baking soda, lye, or some other chemical? Badagnani 22:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

A Chinese friend from Changsha says the following about the lye-treated zongzi: "Why zongzi named Jian shui zongzi cause Jian could made zongzi reserved more days than it without Jian ,they usually have no things in them." Is it correct that the lye treatment (碱水), in addition to imparting a yellowish color to the glutinous rice, also extends the shelf life of the zongzi, as she says? Badagnani 05:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

There is the Chinese Wikipedia page for 碱粽. Yes, people do add something similar to soda into zongzi. Strictly speaking, it is jian zong you (碱粽油) that is added into zongzi. That is the reason why we call it jian zong or jian shui zong. --Yejianfei (talk) 13:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Dim sum[edit]

Should the category "Dim sum" be added to this article? Badagnani 18:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, It's more of a seasonal food. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 02:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fillings[edit]

Does anyone actually put Jujubes in zongzi? I can't tell if this is a joke or just someone's bad taste. If it's not a typical filling it shouldn't be here. Flourdustedhazzn 04:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The jujubes referred to here are the fruit with that name, i.e. the Chinese or red date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.101.95.141 (talk) 02:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the red dates are dried, pitted, then soaked before use. They're fairly common in zongzi. Its inclusion in the list is not a joke. 76.119.90.41 (talk) 16:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Red-cooked pork[edit]

The article formerly had red-cooked pork (紅燒肉) as one of the possible fillings, and it was deleted and changed to Char siu. These are not the same thing. Is red-cooked pork a possible zongzi filling ina ny of the regions where zongzi are prepared? (This may involve actually searching the Web in the Chinese language rather than relying on one's experience and knowledge.) Badagnani 14:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I have eaten a lot of zongzi in my lifetime, but I have never eaten one with Char siu, not in Singapore anyway. The normal typical zongzi we ate during the Dragon Boat Festival are the zongzi filled with red-cooked pork and other stuff. Atticuslai 09:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I have also eaten a lot of zongzi in my lifetime, and none of them have ever contained char siu. Perhaps it should be removed. Unless it's a vegetarian or sweet zongzi, there is almost always red-cooked pork. On the topic of fillings, I've never seen Chinese sausage, green beans, or chicken in a zongzi. 76.119.90.41 (talk) 16:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Bak chang?[edit]

What language is "bak chang" (肉粽) in? It doesn't seem to be Cantonese. This alternate name isn't described in the article, though one link has this name in it. Badagnani 04:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be Hokkien. Confirmation from Hokkien speakers? Badagnani 04:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Can "Ba" in "Bazang" in Minnan dialects be derived from other word, not 肉?[edit]

I have that curiosity as well. Normally we would see it written as 肉粽 but Hokkien and Teochew people all call it similarly as "Bazang". As a non-Minnan speaker I don't understand how that "ba" comes from. 肉 is pronouced as "hiak8" or "liok8" in Hokkien and "nêg8" in Teochew, so how it becomes "Ba". Both pronunciations do not come close to "BA" at all. Therefore, I've done some research which character could be "BA" in "Bazang".

My finding is that it could be from the other word that means female pig, 豝. This word is pronounced "ba" in most of dialects, whether it be Mandarin, Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese, and Hakka. Would it possibly be this character that Minnan people use to call in "Ba-zang"? Perhaps, it is a local lexicon with historical background behind "bazang" in Minnan localities. Perhaps, in the ancient time they mostly used meat of female pigs to make it, is it possible? Or, Chinese people normally prefer eating female pork.

There are more examples of using the word "ba" in Chinese loaned words in Thailand: (a) Minced pork is sometimes called by the word "ba-chor". This is obviously not a Thai word, but taken from Teochew word, perhaps 豝脞. (b)"Ba-mi" is used to call Teochew-styled noodles. This dish is normally made from egg noodles with grilled pork slices and some minced pork in it. I initially thought it was from 肉麵 which is cognate with 肉粽 as well, but also had a wonder why it's not called by any word that means "pork" directly. But now after thinking about "Bazang" and its possibility of relating to the word 豝, now I guess it might be from 豝麵 instead. (c) Some people also call "pig" in general as "dy-ba". It could be from 豬豝 or 彘豝 to convey both male and female pigs as a general term.

So my hypothesis is: maybe originally Hokkien and Teochew people used 豝 in many words but then ceded to other commonly used character, i.e. 肉 later on. However, they still retained the pronunciation of 豝 in certain places where 豝 was used. Therefore, 肉 is also pronounced as "ba" nowdays.

If there is any Hokkien or Teochew people who knows and give us an explanation about it, that'd be great! Thanks

I don't know about other Minnan dialects, but "bazang" is definitely what zongzi are called in Taiwanese. 肉 is almost always pronounced "ba" (roughly, it's a sound between "b" and "v" which is impossible to write in English characters). 76.119.90.41 (talk) 16:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Alternative Starches[edit]

Where I live, glutinous rice is effectively impossible to find, so I am wondering if there is any other possible rice or starchy component that can be used and still produce a zongzi-like result? I am thinking of using short grain rice cut with rolled oats, since all high-amylopectin grains are hard to find outside of custom-ordering from the farm supply shop. Suggestions, anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JFMello (talkcontribs) 05:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The Vietnamese Cake[edit]

I saw the article listed "bánh tro" as the Vietnamese version of this zongzi but I don't think Viet bánh tro is similar to this zongzi. Bánh tro is always sweet and small, traditionally has no filling, though nowadays bánh tro can contain sweet mung bean. Bánh tro is eaten as a dessert or used in worship, especially in Tết Đoan Ngọ. You definitely can't have any of the following ingredient in bánh tro.

  • Red bean paste
  • Jujubes
  • Char siu (Chinese barbecue pork)
  • Chinese sausage
  • Chinese black mushrooms
  • Salted duck eggs
  • Chestnuts
  • Cooked peanuts
  • Dried shrimp
  • Scallops
  • Red-cooked pork]
  • Chicken

Through the description, I think zongzi is more similar to bánh ú than to bánh tro. Sunnyrain90 (talk) 03:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Northern vs. Southern style wrapping?[edit]

At this moment, the caption on the photo comparing the 2 different shapes of wrapping is directly contradicted by the text elsewhere in the article. Can somebody who knows for sure please resolve the contradiction, preferably with a WP:RS? I am much more familiar with the tetrahedral-shaped variety, but am unsure whether it is attributed to Northern or Southern style. Reify-tech (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Currently both the caption and the description in the text are wrong. The Chinese version of the page has the same photo with the caption saying that the one of the left is Northern and the one on the right is Southern: 中國大陸的南方粽(右)及北方粽(左). The Chinese page also goes into more detail on the differences between Northern and Southern varieties, and the descriptions are consistent with the caption there. This caption has been wrong on the English page for a long time. I remember correcting it once already years ago, but now it's been changed back (presumably to be consistent with the text). I'm not sure where the error in the text came from. --Clearish (talk) 00:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I've now corrected the errors in both the text and caption. --Clearish (talk) 00:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Western equivalent[edit]

I accidentally came across the Tamale which seems like a Western equivalent, I can't believe it, for someone who wants to develop the etymology 129.180.157.162 (talk) 06:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

A great many cuisines have dishes prepared by wrapping food in leaves for cooking. It is an ancient practice, not unique to any one culture. In the middle east they use vine leaves, in the Caribbean they use banana leaves, etc. I don't believe there is any etymological link between them. Rincewind42 (talk) 07:24, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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"Benefits"[edit]

Should this section be deleted? The reasoning is weak at best, and the sources are clickbait articles.

Kathl33n (talk) 21:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Spring and Autumn Period[edit]

Where is the evidence that zonzi dates back to the Spring and Autumn Period (771–476 BC)?

This claim is widely propagated using similar phrasing throughout the Chinese webspace (such as the news.youth.cn 中国青年网 cited), but not properly substantiated (by identifying the contemporary document to substantiate it).

The S&A Period claim is made for one by the Baidu Encyclopedia article (on jiaoshu 角黍), yet it only cites as the earliest documented mention of jiaoshu is the Western Jin dynasty book Fengtuji [zh] by Zhou Chu (周处, d. 297 AD). Well Baidu is mistaken, because as someone wrote in the Ja Wiki an earlier book called the Fengsu Tongyi (c. 195 AD) mentions jiaoshu, as can be verified here.[1]

But either way the documentation on the confection only goes back to 2nd or 3rd century AD, not 5th century B.C.--Kiyoweap (talk) 20:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

The S&A Period claim is made by Dong which I cited in the article, but Dong is a translator and expert on modern French politics and literature, not ancient Chinese history. Dong only murkily states there is some "Record" which substantiates this, a real WP:RS needs to clearly identify the primary source. --Kiyoweap (talk) 07:29, 3 August 2020 (UTC)